Tag Archives: feedback

Good pushback

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Yesterday I wrote Winning is Everything and on LinkedIn I got a couple really good comments that (justifiably) pushed back on this idea. Here are the comments and my responses:

Manuel Are:

Thought provoking!

While the mindset of “winning is everything” can drive success and achievement in various contexts, it’s important to balance this with ethical considerations, personal well-being, and long-term sustainability. Sometimes, focusing on personal growth, collaboration, and enjoying the process can lead to more fulfilling outcomes than solely prioritizing winning.

Is this the cultural condition of the times? Is this the societal and cultural pressure that we have now? The standards of the time? The psychological satisfaction?

What about if we teach the future of the value of losing? Of ethical perspectives? Of relationships? Of outcomes?

What if I gained the world but loses my humanity in return?

Dave Truss:

Yes, so true. I work at a school where we show the value of learning through failure. I describe a bit about this here: Educon 17 Conversation

You’ve probably read enough of my blog to know that this is not a typical post for me. I’m very focused on collaboration, teamwork, community, and belonging. This post might seem out of character for me and invited the wonderful counterbalance that you shared…

But I think sometimes we push too much on being ok with just doing our best, and the message of striving, pushing, and thriving from going the extra mile is somehow undervalued or missed.

While collaboration and teamwork are essential life skills, I don’t think we should teach these at the expense of those individualized skills that winning athletes all seem to exude… these too are attributes that help people get what they want out of life.

Mona Haraty:

Doesn’t it serve us all better to believe that everyone can be a winner if they engage more in non-zero-sum games in their lives? It’s easy to lose perspective in zero-sum games like sports.

Dave Truss:

Yes… and no. We do so much in our schools to promote collaboration and teamwork, and we spend a lot more time praising students for what they can do. But how often do we put students into competitive situations where they have to push themselves farther than they think they can go?
We see kids getting ‘A’s all through high school who can’t hack 1st year university because they never understood how to push themselves despite their glowing marks.
This is a bit of a push-back post. Most of my readers will disagree, and I value the time and attention it takes to comment (thank you)… Most of what I do as a school leader is contrary to this philosophy, but I think the pendulum has swung a little too far. We (also) need to praise students who seek individual accolades and who put themselves out there to be the best… while also teaching non-zero-sum games and activities.
Not everyone wins, but most who do win know how to push beyond most who don’t… do we teach that at all these days? Do we let students shine far above others who can’t?
Again, I’m not disagreeing with you, but I wonder if sometimes we aren’t crushing the excellence out of high performers?

Mona Haraty:

I agree that we should definitely encourage excellence, and that we are crushing the excellence out of high performers precisely because they are being compared to their classmates using the same tests or challenges. I tell my kids that if the problems they are working on are too easy, they should skip them because there’s no learning in that—there’s no point in getting an A without being challenged.

Once we encourage excellence and take into account the level and growth of each student, grades become even less relevant.

As you said “most who do win know how to push beyond most who don’t” and we can help students build perseverance and resilience by challenging them at their own appropriate level.

I love this kind of professional learning dialogue. This is the kind of conversation that pushes thinking. This is the kind of dialogue I used to see on my Pair-a-Dimes educational blog regularly 10-15 years ago. The pushback is framed positively, and the intent is to shed light… and learning. I don’t see a lot of this on social media anymore. In fact, I seldom even go to comments on other’s writing anymore. For that reason, I truly thank Manuel and Mona for taking the time to question what I said, and to invite further conversation.

When I wrote ‘Winning is Everything’ I fully intended on following up with a post titled, ‘Winning ISN’T Everything’ to counterbalance it with points shared in the comments above. However, to me the better topic is that others beat me to the punch. Their comments and my responses did more to counter balance, to provide pushback on, yesterday’s post than I could have done on my own.

So please, I invite feedback and pushback whenever I say something that doesn’t resonate with you… or simply to ask a clarifying question. And like Manuel and Mona, it can be on a platform besides my blog. While I like blog comments because then the comments are archived with my post, I also appreciate the feedback wherever you are willing to share it.

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*UPDATE* – One more comment and response came in on LinkedIn, which is like to add here: 

James Linzel:

I’m glad you describe the importance of collaborative skills. An excellent argument can be formed that winner take all systems dominate our society. Schools are literally designed to rank humans rather than maximize potential. Sports focuses on winning. Politics has become winner take all by leveraging voter blocks. Nationalism is given more importance than humanism.
I’d like to see a 180 from the present competition focused society to a more equity, collaborative, competency based society. I’m not saying eliminate competition, but prevent it from having the pedestal its presently given.
When your original post claimed winning is more important than sportsmanship, then I cannot agree. That position leads to the worst in humanity.

Dave Truss:

Excellent points.
I have competed in sports at a fairly high level. I’m not a natural athlete and had to work my butt off at every level, and was never the best player playing. But I had games and moments where I felt that drive and that competitiveness that pushed me harder than I thought I could go, where winning the game was everything, and the hours of hard practice paid off. That’s not something you can easily achieve in an environment that doesn’t foster competitiveness, and those moments are powerful memories of achievement through hard work… that’s what I was trying to describe in my post.

But in reality, I think your points are extremely relevant. I think people like Andrew Tate and many others including a particular political leader, glorify the idea of selfishness and being first, or being losers. Your point that, “Nationalism is given more importance than humanism,” is so on point, and strikes a counterpoint that I wholeheartedly agree with.
I invite you to see my follow up post: Good pushback

I have now included your comment and this response there as an update.
Thank you for sharing your insights!

Rationalize or Analyze?

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I was at a meeting yesterday morning where some critical feedback was shared by a group of students. I think the feedback was very useful, and there was a lot to gain from the information. I don’t know how it was received by others?

When you get feedback and it isn’t what you are looking for, what’s your first instinct?

Is it to rationalize why the feedback was not ideal? Was it a bad question? A misunderstanding? …An excuse of one kind or another?

Or do you analyze, reflect, and think critically about what the feedback really means?

Rationalization is really easy, but renders the information useless. Analysis can lead to uncomfortable realizations, but may lead to meaningful learning and, more importantly, changes in behaviours or systems.

I think rationalization is an emotional response, it’s a defence mechanism. It’s a way to comfort your ego… but it’s not a way to learn and grow. Honest analysis is not about finger-waving and blame, nor about making excuses. Rather it’s about informing practice and getting better. And in the end, getting better feedback in the future.

Rhyme (and) reason

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Sometimes something happens without rhyme or reason, with no logical reason for it to happen. Other times it is abundantly clear… to some people but not to others. So while an observer can see and make connections between events or experiences, the person in the situation believes there is no rhyme or reason, no connections at all. I witnessed this first hand in a conversation recently.

I was talking to someone who was very upset with the behaviors of another person. Why couldn’t this other person understand how to help themselves? Why did this other person not do what needed to be done? There was much frustration because this other person wouldn’t respond well to feedback. Then the person I was talking to shared a personal struggle, and it was abundantly clear to me that the rhyme and reason for their struggle was identical for them as it was for this other person. The situation was completely different, but the points of struggle were the same.

Isn’t that fascinating how we can see and be frustrated with the challenges we see others struggle with, and yet be blind to how we struggle in similar way? Simultaneously asking ‘Why can’t this other person see what needs to be done’, while being oblivious to the fact that we struggle in the same way in other areas of our own lives. Maybe I’m being unfair in saying they are oblivious? Maybe the frustration they see in themselves is precisely why there is frustration in the other person.

‘I hate seeing this other person struggle, because in this other person I see the thing I least like about myself.’

I saw the rhyme and reason. But that doesn’t mean I handled it well. On the contrary, and upon reflection, I could have navigated the conversation much better. I realize this only after the fact. The person I was talking to knew the other person wouldn’t respond well to feedback because they knew they wouldn’t. When I saw the connection, the parallel relationship, I should have realized the it was the wrong time for me to offer feedback. It wouldn’t be well received… it wasn’t well received. The pattern was there for me to see, but I missed it.

We don’t always see the rhyme and reason for why we do what we do. But maybe it’s easier to see this in other people… maybe we project our own insecurities and frustrations on others because we struggle ourselves. The very reason it bugs us in others is because it bugs us in us. But even knowing this, it hurts to hear it.

All Around Wonderful

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Last night our school put on a spring formal for our senior students. The event was a huge success. I had a chuckle at the end of the night when I got feedback from three students. The first from a gushing student telling me what an amazing night it was. “It was so wonderful, I didn’t know what to expect, but this was such an amazing night, thank you!”

The second was a student who thanked us and said how impressed she was. One of my teachers said, “See, start with low expectations and things always turn out great.” The student replied, “Actually I had pretty high expectations, I knew it was going to be good, and it still exceeded my expectations.”

The third one I’d like to share was actually said to me between these two. This student, who always calls me by my last name with no ‘Mr’ (which I don’t mind) said, “You know, Truss, any time you do something the first time, you can expect things to go wrong, but I have to say that tonight was pretty good. You got so much right, and I can’t think of anything I’d change. Good job.” Now that’s from a kid who understands radical candour and isn’t afraid to give hard feedback, especially to me, because he knows I want to hear it.

But the reality is that the event was the success that it was because of the wonderful team I work with. Every teacher and one of my secretaries was there helping to make the night a huge success. This event was the vision of one of our counsellors, who wanted the kids at our school to have an event like students at bigger schools. And the entire team stepped up to make the event something our students wanted… and enjoyed.

A student prepared a welcoming toast. Another one did a full ten minute speech that had everyone laughing and repeating quotes he said. Not platitudes, but humour that resonated with our entire community of students and staff. And a parent raised so much in gifts and prizes that most kids left with a gift card that was at a minimum 2/3rds the cost of the ticket, and many students left with a lot more.

I feel blessed to work in such an amazing environment with a fantastic team, and wonderful students, who all understand and appreciate that an event like this is a lot of work… and appreciate the effort it takes to do it right.

These go to 11

In the satirical mockumentary This is Spinal Tap there is a hilarious scene where the guitarist explains that their very special amps are louder and better because unlike all other amps that have a maximum setting of 10, these go to 11.

While I find this funny, I have noticed a troubling trend recently where issues that are minor in concern are elevated beyond what they should be. In other words, a problem that should be a 3/10 or even 5/10 concern gets addressed as if it’s an 11/10.

This is most obvious on social media. In the past few months I’ve seen silly issues like getting the wrong order at a fast food restaurant, or a dispute over a parking space, or neighbours not being neighbourly, all leading to confrontations that far exceed what should have been appropriate for the level of concern. Now, I recognize that in some cases the concerns are legitimate and deserving of escalating, for example if the issue is related to hate crimes, racism, or bigotry, so strictly speaking, I’m talking about minor issues that get exaggerated into issues far bigger than necessary.

This is something I’ve noticed which has significantly increased since the pandemic. The ramifications are that every little issue or concern becomes a big concern. This is harmful in a couple ways. First of all, the stress of making things bigger than they are is hard on everyone… especially for the person that made the mistake who might want to make things better. This is almost impossible online where people are relentlessly attacked for their mistake. A small issue becomes a mountain of concern that can’t be traversed. It could include personal attacks, such as death threats, which are far worse than the original transgression.

Secondly, when the response is the same whether it’s a person making a bad decision on their worst day or a bigoted jerk intentionally being hurtful, the idea that both of these are attacked with equal vitriol waters down the response to the truly awful act. Vigilante justice handed out without discrimination makes the response more about harming than helping the situation.

Not every issue is an 11/10. When issues are that concerning, they deserve being handled as such. But in many, many cases a small issue deserves a small response, and escalating the issue as if it’s far bigger than it is only makes the whole situation worse. Worse not just for the transgressor, but for the person who feels harmed. We need nuance when dealing with concerns. We also need to consider the impact of negative responses.

Here are two examples:

1. A well known Tiktok food critic disagrees with another food critic and while he does this respectfully, his (so called) fans proceed to attack the other food critic with negative comments and also give the restaurant hundreds of negative reviews, even though they never visited the place themselves.

2. A teacher tried to do a do a culturally based art project and a parent didn’t find it appropriate. The parent reacts on social media and the post goes viral with millions of views. The next day the parent addresses the concerns with the teacher, who was not only apologetic, but as the parent suggests in a follow up video, the teacher was gracious, thoughtful, and open for feedback. However this update did not go viral and only a few thousand people watched it, unlike millions who saw the upset rant.

It’s one thing when these negative responses are online, and still another when they are in person. Everything doesn’t need to be an 11/10. Save those for the kinds of things that deserve a serious response. And, address smaller issues in less public ways with more opportunity for an appropriate response that isn’t elevated and likely to cause harm as much as bring about a solution.

A 3/10 issue isn’t going to be resolved because it’s treated like an 11/10, and is far more likely to have negative consequences if it is elevated to that level.

_________________________________

Somewhat Related: Last May I wrote a post about how when asking someone to rank something on a scale of 1-10, tell them, “You can’t pick 7“.

Incrementally better

I’ve had a cough for 18 days now. The first week was really rough, then I started to feel a bit better. Each day has been slightly better than the day before. Each night has been a slightly better night, with less coughing and waking up… but it has been really slow progress.

This is a challenge with ‘getting better’ in general, not just from recovering from this nasty flu. When we are trying to work out and get stronger, when we are looking for gains in our fitness, we often see them pretty quick in the beginning, but then we get on a slow path of small gains that are hard to notice.

We want to see great gains. We want to be instantly rewarded for our hard work. But the gains are incremental and sometimes unnoticeable for long periods of time. The personal best achievements don’t come every day. And we don’t always notice the gains when we want to. We quickly notice the setbacks, but not always the gains.

Recovering so slowly has made me see improvements I usually ignore… because I’m looking for them, and I’m appreciative of any improvement. But working out I don’t pay attention to tiny gains in pursuit of bigger ones.

I’m going to be a bit more appreciative of the tiny gains in my fitness from now on. I’ll look for them, and know that I’m getting incrementally better. Who knows, these small moments of appreciation might even make me incrementally happier. 😁

Have the day you deserve

I like this little phrase. It’s simple, sharp, and sneaky.

Someone’s being a jerk to you? “Have the day you deserve.”

Someone is rude? “Have the day you deserve.”

Someone intentionally cuts you off in traffic? “Have the day you deserve.”

It’s a rather condescending phrase, but sometimes it’s just the right thing to say to a person who doesn’t deserve to be treated nicely.

I’ve never actually used this. I’ve mostly heard it used on TikTok’s when someone does a reaction video to a rude commenter. But it has a nice ring to it. Someone goes out of their way to be mean… what do you do? Don’t stoop to their level, don’t be rude, just tell them to have the day they deserve.

The Value of Critical Feedback

It’s so important to have friends and colleagues who can give you critical feedback. Yesterday I did a presentation to all of our students on the book Atomic Habits by James Clear. This was not an overview but just an introduction to the book with a personal story that demonstrated how the book influenced me in a positive way. Over the next few weeks I plan on sharing around 10 two-minute videos to help students develop and integrate one positive habit at school, using the strategies in the book.

After my presentation one of my teachers said, “Really good presentation, do you want some critical feedback?” I replied positively and she shared it with me.

I was sharing a slide about my fitness journey and tracking my workouts, and in my first year of tracking I also tracked intermittent fasting. It wasn’t part of my original plan, but I ended up talking for a bit about this too, and how it really doesn’t do much for you other than reducing calorie intake, but that it did reduce my after dinner snacking and helped me lose some unwanted weight.

This was what I got feedback on. My colleague told me that this part of the presentation wasn’t needed, and that for some of our students weight and weight loss as a topic as could be very triggering.

This was a great point! As I reflected on what I said, I not only agreed with my colleague’s feedback, I recognized how a fairly fit, pretty skinny guy talking about weight loss was insensitive… and again, wasn’t even necessary to make my point. It was easy for me to acknowledge this, see the value in receiving this feedback, and be thankful for receiving it.

This feedback will help me be a little more sensitive and thoughtful in my upcoming videos and in future presentations. I really appreciate working in an environment where my colleagues feel comfortable giving me feedback like this. Critical feedback is essential for growth, and while it can be hard to hear that my presentation might have been insensitive to some, it’s far better to know this than to be ignorant of it.

We also work hard to create an environment where our students can give each other critical feedback, and I know that this is far more likely to happen if adults in the building are also open to giving and receiving it amongst each other. Our students see their peers give a lot of presentations, and they have been getting better and better at giving good feedback, but it can still be challenging for them both giving and receiving critical feedback. The important thing is to make sure the culture is to make critical feedback constructive, even if poignant. What value does the critical feedback provide? If this is kept in mind, then the feedback can be far more helpful than just positive praise and platitudes.

But the relationship is dependent on both the giver and receiver understanding the positive intent of critical feedback. In my example above, I could clearly see my error and appreciate the feedback. That doesn’t always happen with critical feedback, and so when the feedback is not as well received, or not as obvious, that’s when it’s important to have a culture of acceptance and openness to feedback. If the culture is there, then it’s just feedback. When the culture is missing, critical feedback can be demotivating, or even hurtful.

Packaged well, in the right environment, critical feedback is a fantastic way to help adults and students alike learn and grow. It turns challenges and failures into opportunities to improve… and even the process itself holds tremendous value because giving critical feedback well is a communication skill everyone can value learning.

Doing something special

I don’t know how to write this without sounding like it’s bragging, so I’m just going to say it… We run an awesome little school.

It’s not perfect. We have a lot to improve still, but in 10 years we’ve had 10 iterations, tweaking and improving each year. Yes, covid was challenging to deal with but the changes to the way we integrate courses and have students do SCRUM project management have been pretty amazing these past couple years. Student inquiries and their ability to present and make incredible visuals to present with have levelled up considerably. We keep getting better and we are all excited about more updates to our program next year.

So when we finish off a year and our staff get letters and emails like these, it feels pretty good:

There are no words to convey how much we have appreciated all your efforts. Reinventing high school is no small thing. We have had highs and lows but the skills my kids are learning are going to serve them well in college and life. Thank you.

And:

Hi! I’m sure you already know this, but as another school year ends I still feel the need to say what an amazing, life-giving, and nurturing place IHub is and to express my deep thankfulness to everyone who works so hard to make IHub what it is! You’re not simply saving some students from being chewed up and spit out in pieces by a more traditional high school experience for which they are not well suited, you are opening doors that would have been invisible, facilitating adventures of self-discovery that would have been impossible and changing futures. Deep thanks to all of you!!!!!

And this from a excellent student who would be successful no matter where they attended school:

Thank you for a wonderful first year at ihub! I can now say firsthand what an amazing school this is and how it is a perfect fit for me!

Sometimes I end the year dissatisfied that we, that I, didn’t do more. Wishing I’d somehow given more of myself, and contributed more to our students and our community. This year these notes hit me at the right time. I realize that we are doing something special, and while I know there’s more to do, I will head into summer holidays in a couple weeks feeling great about what we’ve been doing and what’s still to come.

Ask a student

I’ve created a survey for my Grade 11’s and 12’s. They are the only students in our school that know what our community and culture was like pre-lockdowns and pre-restrictions into cohorts to deal with the pandemic. The 11’s only saw this from September to February of their grade 9 year, the 12’s experienced it for a year and a half. I am asking them these questions for a few reasons:

1. I want them to remember what makes our school special.

2. I want them to share their perspective so that we know what students find valuable about the culture we had before restrictions altered our environment.

3. I want to learn what students didn’t like or enjoy, so that we don’t bring those things back.

I created the questionnaire and shared it with teachers for feedback. I also shared it with one of our grade 12’s. The teachers said, ‘good questions’ and gave a suggestion or two. My student said the same, then went on to give me a whole slew of suggestions that will make the survey easier to understand and respond to, and provide better (clearer) feedback to us. This student’s suggestions allowed me to see the survey through a student’s eyes, and gave me perspective that I could not have had otherwise.

Sometimes we do things for students without having empathy for their experience. We design activities and assignments without thinking of the user experience… without including them in the design process. Often we can make these activities and assignments for students so much better… if we just remember to ask a student.